Scotland consultations

[Victor23]

'A woman taking off her top would fall into the category of a “display of nudity”, but a man doing the same thing would not.'

It appears to be OK for women to express excitement about "Poldark" scything topless in the eponymous TV series - and there were similar ripples when the hero did something similar and showed his nipples in the recent "Beacham House".

The comments appended to the article are more gormless than usual!

[TonyN]

Normally I would sign up to fight the idiots but it is so gormless I would be bashing my head into a brick wall 5ft deep. I have put it on twitter and hope a dancer or two may get annoyed enough.

[Victor23]

Julia Hegele discusses the variances between new legislation for male and female strippers.

[TonyN]

Silly question, if a dancer identifies as male could they legally removed their top?

[Victor23]

Men who identify as women seem able (even with beards) to join female rugby teams , be lodged in women's gaols and use ladies' changing rooms ...

[The Great Smell Of Brute]

Men who identify as women...

Firstly, there's difference between 'men who identify as women' (usually for trivial reasons, and/or to make a point about specific examples of anti-male discrimination) and transwomen. Secondly, transwomen still in the process of transitioning officially have historically ended up in male prisons (where they're in constant danger of rape and sexual assault), or being refused entry to ladies' lavatories and dressing rooms (which usually contain cubicles), and continue to be treated in this manner in many instances, despite more widespread awareness of trans issues and the introduction of various anti-discrimination measures.

Just so that there's no confusion, transphobia is NOT acceptable here in UTK; this includes any speculation in the discussion threads that a particular dancer may be trans.

I appreciate that the intent behind this particular exchange wasn't transphobic, but I thought I should take the opportunity to spell out to members just where the line is drawn regarding discussions of gender identity.

[The Great Smell Of Brute]

Julia Hegele discusses the variances between new legislation for male and female strippers.

There's one curious omission in this article: the political pressure applied by radfem organisations to make it more difficult for licensed strip clubs to operate.

[Victor23]

Edinburgh councillors asked to give city power to licence lap dancing bars.

"More than half of those who responded to the public consultation think there should be no lap dancing bars in any areas of the city apart from in the city centre, while 38% of people said there should be no venues there either.

Meanwhile, around 30% of respondents believed there should be no limit to the number of venues anywhere in the city, with that number falling to 21% for residential areas. "

[TonyN]

So much focus has been on the fight in Glasgow I wonder how many peoplle only wrote on one consultation. And my apologies to Edinburgh as I did write in but most of my focus has been Glasgow.

[The Great Smell Of Brute]

Tony, I've amended the title of this thread slightly, to reflect the fact that consultations are ongoing in Edinburgh and some other cities in Scotland, in addition to the recent one in Glasgow.

[TonyN]

Glasgow and Edinburgh have had individual ones as well as this overall approach. I tend to write in or fill in online forms to see what is require and what is needed. More and morre we are seeing post code being required but any City or Town that has a level of tourism should expect people from outside of town.

The Times pay wall is annoyingly in the way about a piece on Edinburgh and I have used my two free visits so haven't read this

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/lap- ... -bch0c0vh2

[Victor23]

"Edinburgh's lap-dancing clubs 'should be banned' or alcohol stopped amid council plans to control trade."

[The Great Smell Of Brute]

From the Edinburgh Evening News article above:

"Labour Cllr Mandy Watt, who works part-time for Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre, has warned that campaigners believe the industry can become a 'gateway to prostitution'"


The key word in that sentence is 'believe': not a shred of evidence has ever been produced to support that claim; in other words, it's an ideological stance, not a statement of fact.

The other 'antis' quoted in the article parrot the usual set-piece rhetoric about 'objectification' and 'sexualisation', and naturally there a spurious allusion to 'trafficking'. Why have representatives of the industry in Scotland not done more to debunk this nonsense, particularly in light of what's happened regarding SEV licensing in England and Wales since 2010?

[TonyN]

Given the toxic job Bindel did to the industry back in 2003 in Glasgow the whole approach in Scotland remains the same as before.

[The Great Smell Of Brute]

Yes, but why is more not being done to challenge this kind of boilerplate nonsense? The GMB have done some sterling work in Glasgow, but I get the impression that most of the lessons learnt regarding SEV licensing in England and Wales and the tactics of the 'antis' just haven't filtered north of the border, for some reason.

[Victor23]

Edinburgh steps closer to licensing lap dancing clubs.

[The Great Smell Of Brute]

Wow, talk about a misleading headine - it's not as though they're unlicensed now!

And this (from the BBC article):

'Catherine Fullerton, City of Edinburgh Council's regulatory committee convener, said the move was aimed at "safeguarding public safety and preventing crime and disorder".

She added: "The committee agreed that it will take detailed evidence from community groups, businesses affected and statutory bodies as it develops the necessary licensing policy to implement a licensing system.

"There will be a further public consultation early next year on the final proposed scheme."'


Do you get the impression that the recent public consultation didn't deliver the result they were looking for?

I mean, it's not as though they don't have enough examples of local authorities in England and Wales with SEV licensing to study as test cases in drafting their policy!

[TonyN]

These piece sounds a bit better but need to ensure all stakeholders are involved.

https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/ed ... l-17124712

[Victor23]

Scottish Parliament Cross-Party Group on Commercial Sexual Exploitation

[The Great Smell Of Brute]

Ooh, 'Comm-er-cial Sex-u-al Ex-ploi-tat-ion'!

Reading the description of this cross-party group is like stepping back ten years - roll out the cliches, let's all have a singsong!

[TonyN]

The song never changes just different groups singing from a hymn that hasn't changed in 25 years. And the moment you offer to debate with them they hastily say they don't debate those who have been paid for by the pimps, I challenged Bindel twice on her Glasgow report and it went very quiet then I got blocked. I need to use another account to keep a watch.

[The Great Smell Of Brute]

Those 'different' groups tend to contain a lot of the same people as one another! It's a scene that draws on a very small clique.

[TonyN]

Which is why I was surprised at Leeds where two clubs got licenses renewed with zero objections. There was always one that wrote in every time and would not have surprised me if it was Mrs Clown. We will see where the next big push is from NBI.

[TonyN]

So I was surprised to read that Edinburgh are listeningto the dancers now. Would have been better if they had taken note earlier.

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scot ... y-21542670

[Victor23]

Plans for a new licensing strategy for adult entertainment in Aberdeen could be pushed back until next December.

“The online consultation failed to attract suitable evidence to a sufficient degree, and planned face to face consultations with relevant stakeholders have not been possible."