UndressedToKill.com

Victor23 wrote:"Leeds High Court! Where Sheffield's 'no limit' policy on Strip Clubs is put to the Equality test in a Court of Law."

Yeah, a 'no limit' policy which has resulted in a single strip club within a city with a population of half a million!

Victor23 wrote:"Donations still hugely appreciated here"

Aren't they always?

Just thought I'd share this tweet from Sheffield Labour Students (courtesy of Stripping The Illusion):

"The Claimant, Irene, who is bringing this case on behalf of women everywhere, is being represented by discrimination specialists Louise Whitfield of Deighton Pierce Glynn and Karon Monaghan QC of Matrix Chambers who are working at significantly reduced rates. Initially we need to raise £10,000, however, as the case proceeds we will likely have to raise more money to cover all costs so our stretch target is £30,000."

(From the CrowdJustice website.)

"On behalf of women everywhere"? B*ll*c ks.

With a bit of luck they won't make the £30k and will have wasted £10k.

I wonder how often "Irene" and the others are victims of objectification by men?

Victor23 wrote:"The Claimant, Irene, who is bringing this case on behalf of women everywhere...

Well, the claimant's surname isn't Gladdison, according to the court's records!

Update, Wednesday, June 28

"But after further consultation the 'two-club limit' was replaced and a council report last year said the new policy 'does not specify any limit on sex establishments'.

A 54-year-old grandmother-of-five - who gave a fake name as 'Irene Gladdison' amid fears of reprisals - launched an online campaign and raised nearly £5000 to launch a legal challenge to overturn the no limit policy.

Her bid was granted a judicial review to look into the lawfulness of the council's decision and the case is due to be heard by a High Court judge in Leeds tomorrow. The court has the power to overturn the authority's decision."

As others have observed, it does seem to be a lot of fuss if Irene/Gladdison/Turner is merely challenging the no-limit policy when there are only two licensed venues in the area.

Victor23 wrote:"A 54-year-old grandmother-of-five - who gave a fake name as 'Irene Gladdison' amid fears of reprisals..."

Fear of reprisals (REALLY?!), or fear that her claims about the industry and the 'evidence' that she's quoted will be torn to shreds in public, along with her reputation?

From the Sheffield Star article linked to above:

"There are currently two premises which operate under the licences in question in Sheffield - Spearmint Rhino lapdancing bar in the city centre and the La Chambre club in Attercliffe."


To clarify, La Chambre - the other club granted an SEV licence by Sheffield City Council - is a swingers' club (WARNING: the following website is definitely NSFW):

https://www.lachambre.biz/

Brief gloat

"Sheffield City Council conceded in Court (almost unheard of in court cases like this ), that it had broken Equality Law when it created a 'limitless' policy on Strip Clubs!This came after hearing submission from Irene's barrister, Karon Monaghan, of Matrix Chambers which the Judge said 'demonstrated very great skill'. The Council's barrister simply had nowhere to go. Full update coming soon."

I can't be bothered to check back though all the above posts, but I thought that the Council had already conceded the point?

Ironically, tomorrow night BBC1 is screening "The Fully Monty" about unemployed men in Sheffield forming a striptease act ...

Very incidentally, a popular dancer tells me that she studied at Sheffield Hallam University before Spearmint Rhino opened nearby.

At the moment, this seems something of a hollow victory, as nowadays there's no danger of a spate of clubs opening to join the solitary strip venue. Possibly the city might support one or two more but ...

Doesn't the only other SEV in Sheffield - the swingers' club - go some way to equality?

There's some hilarious hysteria noted by Chasmal on his

Stripping the Illusion blog.

(Monday, June 25).

I assume - but can hardly believe - that the original is a genuine effort by Sasha Rakoff and not a satire by someone else?

"Lap dancing clubs ... will take over your community and destroy everything that you hold dear. Your streets will be covered with discarded thongs and sick. Your dog may die as well."

Or perhaps Sasha's tongue is firmly in her cheek?

Victor23 wrote:At the moment, this seems something of a hollow victory, as nowadays there's no danger of a spate of clubs opening to join the solitary strip venue. Possibly the city might support one or two more but...

My impression is that they're making a huge song and dance of this ruling (if you look at NotBuyingIt's Twitter account, you'll see what I mean) because they missed out on the main prize: getting Spearmint Rhino closed down. Consolation prize, anyone?

I expect that Sheffield City Council would be at liberty to increase the upper limit on SEVs at a later date without falling foul of this ruling, 'though we'd be bound to hear howls of outrage from the 'usual suspects'...

I must say that an awful lot of time, money and effort has been wasted on what is essentially maintaining the status quo in Sheffield!

Victor23 wrote:I assume - but can hardly believe - that the original is a genuine effort by Sasha Rakoff and not a satire by someone else?

"Lap dancing clubs ... will take over your community and destroy everything that you hold dear. Your streets will be covered with discarded thongs and sick. Your dog may die as well."

It's actually satire by Chasmal, 'though it's not too far removed from the negative hype we've heard and read from both her and other 'antis' over the last 15 years.

Guardian article

summing up the findings of the review.

"In a judicial review in Leeds high court, campaigners argued the council had only considered the impact on women and gender equality at the branch of Spearmint Rhino, and had failed in its legal obligation to consider the impact on the wider community – the so-called public sector equality duty."

So what? I don't think that SEV premises have much impact on the wider community, certainly no more than most other nightclubs. They're self-contained.

The problem is that it's very easy to fabricate claims of anti-social behaviour:

"One woman, who had a studio opposite the venue, said one of the reasons she gave it up was because of her negative experience of working so close to Spearmint Rhino. She said she was 'harassed by men hanging around outside the club' and it made the area feel 'unsafe, testosterone-filled and unpleasant to move around in'."

She has unusual working hours, with the club being open only from 10pm to 6am and, presumably, with little activity until around midnight.

Likewise with the Cheltfem who would fear being on the streets of Cheltenham at night if the town had an SEV.

Or the woman who couldn't help but spot naked girls inside a windowless club.

Or the woman visiting a town with a strip venue wanting to know where it was so she could avoid going past it - in daytime.

(Having visited Bournemouth recently, I wonder what the antis would make of some of the girls - some very obviously in their teens - on the beach wearing next to nothing? One girl in a thong- and bra - was posing for photos taken by her boy-friend. But few looked as delightful as does Pantera on stage in her yellow bikini ...)

Victor23 wrote:"One woman, who had a studio opposite the venue, said one of the reasons she gave it up was because of her negative experience of working so close to Spearmint Rhino. She said she was 'harassed by men hanging around outside the club' and it made the area feel 'unsafe, testosterone-filled and unpleasant to move around in'."

They're trying to spin that old tale again? And the Guardian has repeated it in print, again?!

All that's missing is a reference to the men leeeeeering and jeeeeering!

For any of you with short memories (or who imagine that the rest of us have), this is a tactic copied from the Object Now playbook:

http://strippingtheillusion.blogspot.co ... viour.html

There's an article in today's Sunday Times (online, behind a paywall) about an "anonymous women's rights campaigner" sending private investigators undercover into Spearmint Rhino; they report being touched sexually by the dancers.

The investigators' report was passed to Not Buying It, whose Sasha Rakoff is quoted extensively.

The club commented that it is investigating and that if its "strict rules" have been broken it would "take the matter very seriously".

The article summarises what has already been reported in previous posts and notes that the Windmill Theatre in London lost its sexual entertainment licence last year following an undercover sting, though the club's website and Facebook page show that it's still open.

I don't get how Sammy Woodhouse can suggest the Times reporter sent the investigators in. I am guessing twitter can make the whole thing read wrong. Given the Windmill I would be guessing Sasha has found a backer to pay for this.Clubs need to keep the dancers inside the lines.

Does Sasha have the money for one, let alone two, sting operations of this type? I doubt it, and I'd suggest looking elsewhere in search of this anonymous 'feminist'...

Sasha wouldn't want the money on her books if the source is dubious. The speed they have latched on to these suggests they knew about the reports before they went public. Apart from other club owners beating the opposition you have Christian Groups who wouldn't want to be named because of the moral implication behind the sting and an individual who dislikes clubs would surprise me. Most feminist groups seem under funded but you never know.

Actually forget the religious groups they would ant to take credit.

Strangely writing my thoughts down clarifies the thought process and I am thinking the cost makes another club the most likely source especially if they planted dancers. Can't think of any feminist group that could find the £10k+ to run a sting like this.

TonyN wrote:Can't think of any feminist group that could find the £10k+ to run a sting like this.

If this really is the work of radfems at all, it's likely to be fronted (anonymously) by someone we haven't seen in the public eye before, and to be funded from abroad (most probably, by a donor in the USA); we'd have gotten wind of who was involved by now if it wasn't.

I know there was a rumour when the sting operation at the Windmill came to light that it was the work of a rival club owner, but the fact that Spearmint Rhino in Sheffield has been the second target suggests genuine radfem involvement in co-ordinating it - the venue seems to acquired symbolic significance for them.

See also the SophistiCats and Platinum Lace threads for recent claims of "planted" dancers, though these seem to relate to inter-club rivalry. Would this be a sign of diminishing numbers of customers?

I readily defer to Brute and Tony when it comes to overviews of the industry, but wouldn't a US donor have plenty at which to target their money at home?

And £10k+ to mount a sting? Give a couple of dancers £1k each, on an agreed night send in a couple of "investigators" for a couple of hours at £125 an hour (max). Job done for less than £3k.

Private investigator fees

The American market is interesting as cases there have been won and the non contact rules don't apply. Judith Lynne Hanna, an American dance professor has been an expert witness for clubs in America and she is well known enough that it would be throwing money away to fight clubs. The UK being more regulated is much more likely to succeed at closing club or at least creating more stringent laws.

One can only assume they want to use a more heavily regulated UK dance scene as an example? We have seen money sent from the US to UK christian groups and seen those group work with radfems in the enemy of my enemy scenarios.

A lot is conject but hiring the police officers also requires spending money and if the girls have gone over the top you can bet the flash of cash was large enough. A lot to think about but it does highlight how far the industry has changed in the last 10 years.

Victor23 wrote:And £10k+ to mount a sting? Give a couple of dancers £1k each, on an agreed night send in a couple of "investigators" for a couple of hours at £125 an hour (max). Job done for less than £3k.

Private investigator fees

Posssibly but the windmill was 3 ex police officers. creates a slightly better level of credibility. Plus they would have to be willing to attest in court if the venue fought it, only reason I am thinking a higher figure. Could be done more cheaply but that would suggest a club having access to dancers to put in to SR. Certainly would be as cheap if it was radfems.

Victor23 wrote:I readily defer to Brute and Tony when it comes to overviews of the industry, but wouldn't a US donor have plenty at which to target their money at home?

Certain very rich US donors fund anti-sex work activism globally, so it should come as no surprise if one has decided to take the same line with striptease in the UK. And with the likes of Bindel campaigning globally, it should come as no surprise if certain contacts have been established.

Victor23 wrote:There's an article in today's Sunday Times (online, behind a paywall) about an "anonymous women's rights campaigner" sending private investigators undercover into Spearmint Rhino; they report being touched sexually by the dancers...

There are two letters in today'sSunday Times commenting on the article.

One is from Niki Adams of the English Collective of Prostitutes. (Perhaps slightly unfortunate, as most dancers do not appreciate being associated with prostitution.) She slams the surveillance (which she attributes to Not Buying It) as "abusive, humiliating and harmful" and says that "income [from stripping] is needed", with one girl needing more shifts to cover the shortfall when she is placed on Universal Credit.

"Real feminism starts with women's needs campaigns for a living wage so no one is driven into sex work by poverty," writes Niki.

Tabitha Morton of the Women's Equality Party says that the undercover investigation demonstrates why councils should not give new or renew existing licences. "Lap-dancing [sic] clubs usually offer few employment protections," she claims. "We respect the decisions of individual women who work in lap-dancing clubs. But women's choices are limited by the options available, which is why we campaign to end austerity and invest in free childcare".

I'm hesitant to accept the argument that girls are driven into stripping to avoid poverty. Most that I've known enjoy the work and could find conventional jobs, albeit ones that are not so well paid.

Two things.

1) The story about going undercover has the claim Sasha was behind it here. Remember Sammy Wood who claims to have been a stripper after she was groomed in Rotherham? Andrew Norfolk of the Times was behind the exposure of the grooming gangs which suggest the link from Sasha to the Times. Andrew Norfolk was behind some strangely religious stories against Muslims and pro christian.

2) I have just got hold of the consultation documents from Sheffield. Unfortunately not sure how much I can share so not sure if I could distribute it further.

Guess my next week is going to be busy.

Some of the dancers at Spearmint Rhino have started a petition, in the form of an open letter to Sheffield City Council, to lobby for the SEV licence to be renewed, and for the workers to be consulted over the imposition of any additional licence requirements:

https://platform.organise.org.uk/campai ... -spearmint